"Your problem is with God, not me..."

A Dangerous Intersection post of mine (a duplicate of this one here) attracted, surprisingly for me, a quick splash of comments from users. One born-again young-earth creationist respondent, a Mr Brewer, after pasting the usual slabs of fundie garbage & evangelist catchphrases, decided it would be ok to label me "depraved" (precisely, that I had a depraved or useless mind) because I'm not down with Jesus (I was already familiar with Brewer's work as we'd had a brief stoush in a post of Erich Vieth's about sex education. A pet project for fundamentalist ignorance and arse-backwardness, their stance on sex-ed amounts to "don't tell 'em how to do it safely, just tell 'em not to do it at all." Right. Worked a treat for Bristol Palin). And, yes, being called "depraved" annoyed me somewhat, as my responses no doubt indicate. So I bit back a couple of times. Who is this guy to judge & insult me because I disagree with him? At least I was only trying to, respectfully but firmly, smack his arguments (such as they were) down without resorting to insulting the guy.

But, really, being insulted (someone who thinks the entire planet is younger than verbal communication, the discovery of agriculture and the domestication of animals, no less, thinks my mind is useless?) wasn't the problem. I can cop an insult, and "depraved" is pretty mild. Even so, I called him on it and pointed out that it's not how grownups talk to each other. I didn't expect an apology - at best, a cessation of such ad hominems in further posts would have been perfectly acceptable. Anyway, instead of an "ok, fine" or even just ignoring it and moving on (which would have been fine), he did it again. But this time he offered a justification - that it's God who thinks my mind is useless. My problem shouldn't be with Brewer whipping insults around the place in place of actual arguments, it should be with God. "Hey, don't blame me, talk to God about it! It's not me who thinks you're depraved, it's God. I'm just passing on his message. You can choose not to be depraved by accepting Christ! Gee, I'm sorry if you took offence at being insulted but hey, again, take it up with the Lord. I just want to help you poor pitiful atheists find Jesus because I care about you!" (I paraphrase here, but that's the thrust).

Interesting, Mr Brewer. Even though it's you who thought it and typed it and clicked "post" (repeatedly), it's not your fault. The depravity - the "useless minds" - of all atheists might not necessarily be what you yourself truly believe but because you think God thinks it, you have a duty to pass it on for our own sake because you care ... which is about the most gutless, laughable, pathetic and classically fundamentalist piece of rank bullshit I've ever heard. It's on a par with "the devil made me do it!" as a complete abdication of personal responsibility. It's a classic passing of the buck to someone who is completely unaccountable (and, to throw in my extra tuppence, whose existence is so gargantuanically improbable that it's more or less safe to say he's non-existent, or at least completely uninterested). You might think it's okay, as many fundies do, to just throw shit like that out there and absolve yourself of any responsibility by hiding behind your god's apron. "It's God's word, talk to him about it." Or, in more accurate parlance, "Don't blame me, blame my secret friend. He did it!". Hey, it worked when you were six, why not keep it up?

I guess your average fundie clown would see this kind of thing as an epic win: you get to call the nasty old atheist whatever you want, be it "depraved", "immoral", "stained with sin" or whatever else you want to paste in the comments box from your weekly, talking-point filled email from Answers In Genesis or Ray "Watch Me Wank This Banana" Comfort or Ken "Not That Much Smarter Than A Leg Of" Ham. Then, if anyone gets shitty you can just say "Don't blame me my friend, that's just what God says." Ha!

OK, I'm trying not to harp here. This isn't a BAWW because some troll called me a name. Like I said, I've had worse. This is just a simple, honest Fuck You because the guy weaseled out of it by laying blame at the feet of his God who, conveniently, isn't the kind who just answers you when you say "Oi, what's this shit about me being depraved?" Shit, if you're going to insult someone, have the balls to stand by it and accept whatever response you get and not refer me to your manager. Seriously, if you're going to stand there, insult a person and say "oh no, it's not me, it's God" then you can go fuck yourself. Such blatant hypocrisy is a lot more insulting than an actual insult.

It's really very amusing, and pitiful, in hindsight. Being accused of having a useless mind by a guy who is so mindless he won't even take responsibilty for his own words & who believes the Earth is 6000 years old despite centuries of evidence (evidence - remember that?) to the contrary is probably the best & clearest example of fundamentalist hypocrisy I've ever seen. Sticks & stones, Mr Brewer. Hell, not even your words faze me that much. Actions, though, are something different. When you accuse me of having a useless, depraved mind, deny your own mind as the source of your words and then attribute responsibility for those words to the mind of your god (who's conveniently unavailable for comment), you reveal yourself either as the worst kind of cowardly liar, eager to absolve yourself of responsibility for your own actions and pass it on to someone who's completely unaccountable, as a rank hypocrite or merely as an intellectual zombie - an empty vessel for the thoughts and opinions of others, be they your god, pastor, community or whoever it was who originally put that idea in your head.

To me, a truly useless mind is one that can be used by others for their own purposes as easily as yours seems to be, Mr Brewer. The pity I now feel for your empty mind is far more than any annoyance I previously felt at being insulted. I can think of no worse fate than being a mere vehicle for someone else's bigotry and ignorance. If I had a religious bone in my body, I'd pray for you.

Score one for the "religion of peace"

From the Beeb:

At least eight women and one man are reported to have been sentenced to death by stoning in Iran.

The group, convicted of adultery and sex offences, could be executed at any time, lawyers defending them say.

Under Iran's strict penal code, men convicted of adultery should be buried up to their waists and women up to their chests for stoning. The stones used should not be large enough to kill the person immediately.

Men up to their waists; women up to their chests. Fair enough, I mean, you don't want them to run away or be able to cower and protect themselves, but I suppose you don't want to hurt their breasts or genitals either (or even admit they exist, this is fundamentalist Islam after all). Also, good that the stones shouldn't be big enough to kill them immediately. It's perfectly understandable that you'd want to cause someone immense pain through dozens, maybe hundreds of blunt force traumas first. You want to draw it out so the stoners can enjoy their work. They could perhaps have competitions to see who can blind the prisoner or break their nose first. Don't throw too hard though - perhaps the vicious, sinful sex criminal could suffer some kind of brain damage first or even slip into unconsciousness which would mean they wouldn't feel the rest of the stones hitting their face and body. Can't have that - they have to realise the error of their ways before they slip into unconsciousness and have their heads bashed in.

I thought Catholicism and Christianity in general was Dark-Ages retarded (retarded in the literal sense of the word, as in "held back or delayed"). Most of the time when I rant I concentrate on Christianity because it's the religion I'm familiar with, but I often seem to forget how Islam - which makes similar claims to Absolute Truth and Moral Certainty - always manages to eclipse Christianity in almost every way. Sexual discrimination/homophobia/sexual hangups in general? Islam wins. Brutal punishments like the above? Islam again. Strident demands to not be offended by someone who disagrees? We can all recall the Danish cartoon fiasco and the poor teacher in the Sudan who had to be spirited out of the country after her students, not her, named a teddy Mohammed - then she apologised!! Vicious demonstrations calling for the deaths of critics? Think of the infamous fatwa against Salman Rushdie (his is still in effect twenty years later - these people don't forgive or forget). What about actual deaths of critics? Think of Dutch filmmaker Theo Van Gogh. He was found gunned down & stabbed to death in the street. Pinned to his chest with a knife was a note, addressed to Somali-born, Dutch politician Ayaan Hirsi Ali, which said "you're next". As an apostate and vocal, public critic of Islam, Ms Ali has her own fatwa against her and requires 24hr protection wherever she goes. I probably don't need to mention honour killings or 72 virgins or Bali, do I?

I got your Religion of Peace right here:

Of course, it would be completely unfair to characterise all Muslims as potential faith-based murderers. I won't lie and tell you that some of my best friends are Muslims, but I have many Muslim co-workers and they're all decent, gentle, caring people (this is a humanitarian organisation after all). The last thing on my mind would be to feel uncomfortable or frightened around them. What would not be unfair would be to say that, simply looking at the numbers, their religion, unfortunately, produces more than its fair share of brutal violence. Violence which, more often than not according to the very words of the perpetrators of such violence, is scripturally-inspired. How many pre-suicide bomb films have we seen where the soon-to-be martyr proclaims the greatness of Allah? Not even that - just look at theocracies like Iran & Saudi Arabi where punishments like stonings and beheadings are carried out daily and where Koran-based prohibitions on what an adult can do are ruthlessly enfored by "Public Decency Police" or what-have-you. Look at what happens to gay people/adulterers - even hetero, umarried couples who dare to defy their families in those countries (more often than not it's the woman who takes the brunt of punishment). Look at the world Osama bin Laden & his ilk want to create - everyone under the bootheel of Wahabbi Islam, the strictest, most fundamentalist version that can be found.

Yes, obviously it's always the extremists that cause the problems, that small minority that make all moderate, decent believers look bad. But when can we expect the moderates all over the world to say "No! That's not our Islam, that's their Islam, ours is about peace and quiet coexistence and acceptance. Those ranting muftis do not speak for us!" And what if the moderates did stand up for decency? The extremists would say "Their moderate Islam is wrong; ours commands us to spread the word of Allah by whatever means are necessary; our Islam demands we wage jihad! Their Islam is weak and diluted and corrupted by decadent, permissive, infidel Western whores!"

That, by and large, is my biggest problem with religion. With so many different competing sects, versions and levels of literalism when it comes to interpreting the texts, how can anyone be sure that theirs is the right one? How can any of these people, apart from the fact they were marinated in it for their entire lives, actually know they're doing it right? This is a point frequently raised by atheists/agnostics/rationalists and to my knowledge it's never been adequately addressed by a believer or priest or theologist. What if your moderate version of the religion is actually wrong and God actually wants you to behave like an illiterate desert shepherd from two or three thousand years ago? What if he actually does want you to execute infidels and de-converts and people who work on weekends? What if he will condemn you to hell for the slightest infraction? Face it, you and your sect have evolved & adapted your faith to conform with your own personal morality and that of your modern society. But you had absolutley no right to do that; God's word is law and it's the only law you need. How dare you defy God's will and make up your own rules? May God have mercy on your soul!

Sam Harris and others have said that it's the moderate form of any religion which provides the environment in which the extreme element survives (after all, pretty much all religions start of as fundamentalist and then evolve toward moderation through time - today's fundamentalists are just getting back to basics). The moderates provide cover for the extremists to grow and thrive, like weeds in a cornfield. Some weeds manage to exert a disproportionate influence on the rest of the crop though - in cases like Iran and Saudi Arabia, the weeds have full control. It's not the spread of Islam that the world must be on its guard against (it's the fastest-growing faith in the world and it's everywhere anyway); it's the stunted, poisonous, parasitic weeds that Islam allows to grow and spread that we should stamp out and uproot wherever we find them.